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11-01-16 CC PC Joint Meeting MINUTES OF A JOINT MEETING/STUDY SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL&PLANNING COMMISSION OF THE CITY OF ROLLING HILLS NOVEMBER 1, 2016 CALL MEETING TO ORDER A joint meeting of the City of Rolling Hills Planning Commission and City Council was called to order by Mayor Dieringer at 6:33 p.m. on Tuesday, November 1, 201b in the City Council Chamber, at City Hall, 2 Portuguese Bend Road,Rolling Hills, California, ROLL CALL Councilmembers Present: Black*,Mirsch, Pieper, Wilson and Mayor Dieringer. . arrived ar 6:54 p.m. Counciimembers Absent: None. Commissioners Present: Gray,Kirkpatrick, Seaburn and Chairman Chelf. Commissioners Absent: Cardenas (excused). Oth�rs Present: Raymond R. Cruz, City Manager. Yolanta Schwartz, Planning Director. Headi Luce, City Clerk. Mike Jenkins, City Attorney. Jill Smith, 10 Georgeff Road. Caxole Hoffman, 3 Hillside Lane. Jack Smith, 12 3�ohns Canyon Road. Mayor Dieringer thanked the rnembers of the Planning Cammission for their invaluable service to the Cammunity. APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA Approved as presented. PUBLIC CONIlI�NTS ON MIlVUTES AND ANY ITEM NOT ON THE AGENDA None. DISCUSSION TOPICS VAR�ANCE REQUESTS AND APPROVALS Mayar Dieringer introduced th� item and asked for stafPs comments. Pianning Dixector Schwartz stated that there has been general concern expressed amongst the City Council and Planning Commission concerning the number of variances granted. She revfewed variances in general, stating that a variance is a deviation from the rules and regulations of the Zoning Ordinance and are not given lightly; but rather are given when there is a hardship specific to a properiy. She stated that over the years, the Planning Commissian and City Council have had previous discussions on this tapic resulting in Zozung Code amendments to adapt to development trends — including the recently adopted Overlay Zone that addressed a comman hardship amongst several neighborhoods with similar setback issues; and making an allowance for additional disturbance in specif c situations to a�low for less steep slopes. Ms. Schwartz further reviewed the table included in the staff repart listing the types of variances requested in th� context of the de�elopment project. She noted that in the last five years, the Planning Commission has reviewed a total of 96 developmerrt cases of which 68 included the granting af variance (or variances) and stated that this information is presented as a beginning point for the discussions. Mayor Dieringer asked for the Plaxuning Commission's thoughts on the variances granted to determine if there is a framewoxk from which to assess the information for possible zoning code amendments. Minutes—City Council/Planning Commission Joint Meeting/Steidy Session 11-01-16 - 1 - Chairman Chelf commented that when he began on the Planning Commission more variances were beirig granted partly due ta the challenges with smaller lots and disturbance issues;but recognizing those challenges, recent zoning code changes were adopted to address these issues including adding the overlay zone, allowing for m�ore disturbance in certain situations; and changing the way major remadel proj ects are processed. He further commented that there are still a number or challenges facing the smaller lots and because the lots in the City ate unique with their own set or characteristics and features, it isn't realistic to eliminate variances comp�etely. He stated that #he Planr�ing Commission strives to work with properry owners to make sure the project fits in the neighborhood and takes granting variances very seriously. Cout�cilmember Pieper commented that in reviewing the table of�ariance granted, it doesn't appear that there is anything that could be changed in the code to elirninate the variarices requested. The rnajority, with the exception of disturbance seems to be specific to an individual property'. Commissioner Kirkpatrick commented that it is difficult to generalize the variances that are being granted and in the current process, the Planning Commission takes consideradon of each variance granted very sexiously specific to the project. Com�nissioner Gray expressed concern regarding the �ariances granted relating to setbacks. He commented that he believes setbacks are being eroded. He further commented that he belie�es the variances granted relative to disturbance are making for better projects. Commissioner Seaburn commented that although he hasn't been on the Planning Commission that long, he believes it is difficult to be �xniversal because of the uniqueness of the lats and that each variance should be considered individually. In response to Councilmember Wi�son, Ms. Schwartz stated that the table only represents the number of variances granted through the Planning Commission process; and if, during staff's review or the Planning Commissian's review of an application a variance request was eliminated by the applicant, it would not be reflected in the table. Chairman Chelf commented that the table does not reflect an accurate picture the variances granted as a percentage af the projects because it does not include those that were eluninated during the Planning Commission's re�iew of a project. Councilmember Pieper commented that the primary driving factor in a deve�opment project is pad si�e wi�h the objective to get the largest pad possible which in some instances is what necessitates some of the variances requests. He further commented that he belie�es there is balance in the process that keeps the developments reasonable and keeps the process in check. He cammented that he believes the Planning Cominission is doing a good job. Councilmember Mirsch commented that during its review of development pro�ects the Planning Comxnission is making good suggestions to the applicant to make the project the best possible outcome and they make the findings necessary for granting a variance very seriously. Mayor Pro Tem Black cammented that he believes that his job as a City Cauncilme�nber is to maintain the look and feel af the community and he is not as concemed about the number of variances granted as long as things look like they belong and look natu.ral. Brief discussion ensued concerning grading and disturbance. Mayor Dieringer commented that she tao is not as concerned about grading as lang as it looks natural, but rather her concem lies around "as built" situations and s�uctures constructed in setbacks. Brief discussion ensued about the importance of not setting precedent. Councilmernber Pieper suggested that staff talk with engineers to see if there is a better way to address #he grading and disturbance issues so that the projects look natural. Mayor Pro Tem Black suggested it may be worthwhile ta encourage applicants#o include a basement under the garage with a lift rather than asking for very Iarge garages or multiple garages. Counci�Znember Mirsch suggested that it also may be worthwhile, on the more complicated projects for the City Council to visit the projects after they are complete to see the final resuit. Mayor Dieringer asked for comments from the public. Minutes—City Council/Planning Commissian 3oin#Meeting/Study Session 11-01-16 - 2 - :. ..........�..,. .....� ,,,� Jill Smith, 10 Geargeff Road stated that it is important to maintain the look and feel of the community and she feels the Planning Commission does a good job looking at each project indiuidually when co�sidering variances. SHQULD THE CITY CQNSIDER REGULATING THE SIZE AND iTSES OF STABLES? WHAT LEVEL QF REVIEW SHOULD BE GIVEN TO SET SIDE AREAS FOR A FUTURE STABLE AND CORRAL ON A PROPERTY AND SHOULD THE AREA BE REALISTICALLY USABLE Mayor Dieringer introduced the item and asked for sta.ffs comments. Planning Director Schwartz preser�ted the staff report including the review of the recent modifications that were made to the �stabie ordinance stating that the�re has been discussion recently amongst the Plannitag Commission about the overall size of stables given the recent trend taward larger stables. She further sta.ted that there has also been discussion regarding what is appropriate and realistic with regard to the set aside area required for a future stable and corral. Mayor Dieringer asked for comments from the public on this topic. Jack Srnith, 12 7ohns Canyon Road stated on behalf of Caballeros that it is important that stables rernain a requirement in the City ar�d that they be usable. Carale Hoffman, 3 Hillside Lane stated that they are here to observe and hear what is discussed with regard to stables and will share at�y information presented with Caballeros. Chairman Chelf stated that the P�anning Commission appreciates the input and comments that the members of Caballeros provide when the Planning Commission is considering stables. He further stated that as Chair of the Commission, he is interested in receiving guidance from the City Council with regard to size of stables given the recent trend taward �arger stables. Discussion ensued concerning the size of stables in relation to the size of the corral and the number of horses being kept in the s�able. General concern was expressed concerning the general trend toward larger sta.bles; not when they are being used for animal keep but when property ownership changes and they are no longer t�sed for horses. It was noted that the Rolling Hills Comm�.tnity Associatian is also having discussions on tlus topic from an architectural perspectiv�;. Mr. Smith commented that a 2,000 sq. ft. stable should be able to accarnmoda.te most horsekeeping uses. Ms. Hoffrnan commented that stables should be assessed based on their placement on the lot and the size of the lot rather than setting a specific limit as to size. She further coFnmented that it is important when approving large stables to ensure that there is an appropriate amount of corral space to rea�istically accornrnodate the number of animals in the stable. Ms. Smith echoed Ms. Hoffman's comments that rather than placing a limit on the size of stabies,the project should be Iooked at in its totality considering the size of lot,the size of the stable and the size of the corral/turnout. Chairman Chelf suggested setting a guideline for the size of corra� based on the number of stalls in a stable and sugges#ed that Caballeros help determine what that number should be. Further discussion ensured concerning the feasibility of set aside area for future stable and corral space with the group express�ing a general sentiment that the area should be reviewed for feasibility but no specific changes were recommended. Following further discussion concsrning the feasibility of set aside area for future stable and corral space and the size of stables, the City Council asked the Planning Commission to study this issue in consultation with members of the Caballeros group in order to develop guidelines as #o what makes a working and funcrional stable; and what is the appropriate size of a stable and uses within the stable. SHOULD THE CITY CONSIDER REGULATING THE SIZE OF NEW RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS? Pianning Director Schwartz provided a brief background on this topic and ir� response to Mayor Dieringer explained that the Site Plan Review pracess did not begin until 1988 and as such, fmding data an the size of the house constructed prior to that is difficult. Minutes—City Cauncil/Planning Commission Joint Meeting/Study Session i i-ai-id -3 - Chairman Chelf commented that the Planning Commissian considers how a house fits on a lot and the design and layout when it reviews project; and considers the overall scale and massing to ensure that the house fits on the lot. Counci�member Pieper commented that the position of the house on the lot; its proximity to the neighboring properties and how much can bee seen from the street or other praperties are more important than the size of the house. Chairman Che1f further commented that as discussed earlier, it's not the size of the house that is the issue, its more the amaunt of grading associated with projects. Mayor Pro Tem Black commented that he applauds the Planning Commission when he looks at the numbers because the projects are including more basement space, wh�ch limits the rnass at grade and maintains open space. He commented that he would encourage larger basements and even basements that go beyond the footprint of the l�ouse where feasible. He further commented that he agrees that the grading is probably the Iarger issue. Commissioner Kirkpatrick commented that it is importaut to consider not just the size of the hause, but how it f ts in with the neighbors. Discussion ensued concerning the irnportance of maintaining the look and feel of the community. Commissioner Gray expressed concern regarding the upward trend in #he size of houses and suggested conducting a survey or foru�n amongst the residents to ascertain their thoughts on the size of the houses. Mayor Dieringer expressed concern regarding basements constructed in an area that may have geologic issues and the fact the City's current Site Plan Review process does not allow for consideration of geologic issues. Mayor Pro Tem Black commented that the County engineers review geologic issues during their review of a project and they are much more qualified to address those issues. Further discussion ensued concerning the size of houses with the general consensus being that the size of the houses isn't as much of a concern as the grading associated with the projects. Following discussion, staff was direc�ed ta discuss with an engineer the feasibility of constructing basements that would extend beyond the footprint of the house, such as under driveways. Na further action was taken ADJOURNMENT Hearing no fixrther business before the City CouncillPlanning Commissian, Mayor Dieringer adjourned the meeting at 9:16 p.m. The next regular meeting of the City Council is schedu�ed to be he�d on Monday, November 14, 2016 beginning at 7:00 p.m. in the City Cou.ncil Chamber, Rolling Hills City Hall, 2 Portuguese Bend Road, Rolling Hills, California. The next regular meeting of the Plarining Commission is scheduled to be held an Tuesday, November 15, 2016 beginning at 6:30 p.rn, in the City Council Chamber,Rolling Hills City Hall, 2 Portuguese Bend Road,Rolling Hills, California. Respectfully submitted, Heidi Luce City Clerk Appraved, ieringer Mayor B d ef Chairman of the Planning Commi ion Minutes—City Council/Planning Commission Joint Meeting/Study Session 11-oi-16 -4-