11-01-16 CC PC Joint Meeting MINUTES OF A
JOINT MEETING/STUDY SESSION
OF THE
CITY COUNCIL&PLANNING COMMISSION
OF THE
CITY OF ROLLING HILLS
NOVEMBER 1, 2016
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
A joint meeting of the City of Rolling Hills Planning Commission and City Council was called to order
by Mayor Dieringer at 6:33 p.m. on Tuesday, November 1, 201b in the City Council Chamber, at City
Hall, 2 Portuguese Bend Road,Rolling Hills, California,
ROLL CALL
Councilmembers Present: Black*,Mirsch, Pieper, Wilson and Mayor Dieringer.
.
arrived ar 6:54 p.m.
Counciimembers Absent: None.
Commissioners Present: Gray,Kirkpatrick, Seaburn and Chairman Chelf.
Commissioners Absent: Cardenas (excused).
Oth�rs Present: Raymond R. Cruz, City Manager.
Yolanta Schwartz, Planning Director.
Headi Luce, City Clerk.
Mike Jenkins, City Attorney.
Jill Smith, 10 Georgeff Road.
Caxole Hoffman, 3 Hillside Lane.
Jack Smith, 12 3�ohns Canyon Road.
Mayor Dieringer thanked the rnembers of the Planning Cammission for their invaluable service to the
Cammunity.
APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA
Approved as presented.
PUBLIC CONIlI�NTS ON MIlVUTES AND ANY ITEM NOT ON THE AGENDA
None.
DISCUSSION TOPICS
VAR�ANCE REQUESTS AND APPROVALS
Mayar Dieringer introduced th� item and asked for stafPs comments. Pianning Dixector Schwartz
stated that there has been general concern expressed amongst the City Council and Planning
Commission concerning the number of variances granted. She revfewed variances in general, stating
that a variance is a deviation from the rules and regulations of the Zoning Ordinance and are not given
lightly; but rather are given when there is a hardship specific to a properiy. She stated that over the
years, the Planning Commissian and City Council have had previous discussions on this tapic resulting
in Zozung Code amendments to adapt to development trends — including the recently adopted Overlay
Zone that addressed a comman hardship amongst several neighborhoods with similar setback issues; and
making an allowance for additional disturbance in specif c situations to a�low for less steep slopes. Ms.
Schwartz further reviewed the table included in the staff repart listing the types of variances requested in
th� context of the de�elopment project. She noted that in the last five years, the Planning Commission
has reviewed a total of 96 developmerrt cases of which 68 included the granting af variance (or
variances) and stated that this information is presented as a beginning point for the discussions.
Mayor Dieringer asked for the Plaxuning Commission's thoughts on the variances granted to determine if
there is a framewoxk from which to assess the information for possible zoning code amendments.
Minutes—City Council/Planning Commission
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Chairman Chelf commented that when he began on the Planning Commission more variances were
beirig granted partly due ta the challenges with smaller lots and disturbance issues;but recognizing those
challenges, recent zoning code changes were adopted to address these issues including adding the
overlay zone, allowing for m�ore disturbance in certain situations; and changing the way major remadel
proj ects are processed. He further commented that there are still a number or challenges facing the
smaller lots and because the lots in the City ate unique with their own set or characteristics and features,
it isn't realistic to eliminate variances comp�etely. He stated that #he Planr�ing Commission strives to
work with properry owners to make sure the project fits in the neighborhood and takes granting
variances very seriously.
Cout�cilmember Pieper commented that in reviewing the table of�ariance granted, it doesn't appear that
there is anything that could be changed in the code to elirninate the variarices requested. The rnajority,
with the exception of disturbance seems to be specific to an individual property'.
Commissioner Kirkpatrick commented that it is difficult to generalize the variances that are being
granted and in the current process, the Planning Commission takes consideradon of each variance
granted very sexiously specific to the project.
Com�nissioner Gray expressed concern regarding the �ariances granted relating to setbacks. He
commented that he believes setbacks are being eroded. He further commented that he belie�es the
variances granted relative to disturbance are making for better projects.
Commissioner Seaburn commented that although he hasn't been on the Planning Commission that long,
he believes it is difficult to be �xniversal because of the uniqueness of the lats and that each variance
should be considered individually.
In response to Councilmember Wi�son, Ms. Schwartz stated that the table only represents the number of
variances granted through the Planning Commission process; and if, during staff's review or the
Planning Commissian's review of an application a variance request was eliminated by the applicant, it
would not be reflected in the table. Chairman Chelf commented that the table does not reflect an
accurate picture the variances granted as a percentage af the projects because it does not include those
that were eluninated during the Planning Commission's re�iew of a project.
Councilmember Pieper commented that the primary driving factor in a deve�opment project is pad si�e
wi�h the objective to get the largest pad possible which in some instances is what necessitates some of
the variances requests. He further commented that he belie�es there is balance in the process that keeps
the developments reasonable and keeps the process in check. He cammented that he believes the
Planning Cominission is doing a good job.
Councilmember Mirsch commented that during its review of development pro�ects the Planning
Comxnission is making good suggestions to the applicant to make the project the best possible outcome
and they make the findings necessary for granting a variance very seriously.
Mayor Pro Tem Black cammented that he believes that his job as a City Cauncilme�nber is to maintain
the look and feel af the community and he is not as concemed about the number of variances granted as
long as things look like they belong and look natu.ral. Brief discussion ensued concerning grading and
disturbance.
Mayor Dieringer commented that she tao is not as concerned about grading as lang as it looks natural,
but rather her concem lies around "as built" situations and s�uctures constructed in setbacks. Brief
discussion ensued about the importance of not setting precedent.
Councilmernber Pieper suggested that staff talk with engineers to see if there is a better way to address
#he grading and disturbance issues so that the projects look natural. Mayor Pro Tem Black suggested it
may be worthwhile ta encourage applicants#o include a basement under the garage with a lift rather than
asking for very Iarge garages or multiple garages. Counci�Znember Mirsch suggested that it also may be
worthwhile, on the more complicated projects for the City Council to visit the projects after they are
complete to see the final resuit.
Mayor Dieringer asked for comments from the public.
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Jill Smith, 10 Geargeff Road stated that it is important to maintain the look and feel of the community
and she feels the Planning Commission does a good job looking at each project indiuidually when
co�sidering variances.
SHQULD THE CITY CQNSIDER REGULATING THE SIZE AND iTSES OF STABLES?
WHAT LEVEL QF REVIEW SHOULD BE GIVEN TO SET SIDE AREAS FOR A FUTURE
STABLE AND CORRAL ON A PROPERTY AND SHOULD THE AREA BE
REALISTICALLY USABLE
Mayor Dieringer introduced the item and asked for sta.ffs comments. Planning Director Schwartz
preser�ted the staff report including the review of the recent modifications that were made to the �stabie
ordinance stating that the�re has been discussion recently amongst the Plannitag Commission about the
overall size of stables given the recent trend taward larger stables. She further sta.ted that there has also
been discussion regarding what is appropriate and realistic with regard to the set aside area required for
a future stable and corral.
Mayor Dieringer asked for comments from the public on this topic.
Jack Srnith, 12 7ohns Canyon Road stated on behalf of Caballeros that it is important that stables rernain
a requirement in the City ar�d that they be usable.
Carale Hoffman, 3 Hillside Lane stated that they are here to observe and hear what is discussed with
regard to stables and will share at�y information presented with Caballeros.
Chairman Chelf stated that the P�anning Commission appreciates the input and comments that the
members of Caballeros provide when the Planning Commission is considering stables. He further stated
that as Chair of the Commission, he is interested in receiving guidance from the City Council with
regard to size of stables given the recent trend taward �arger stables. Discussion ensued concerning the
size of stables in relation to the size of the corral and the number of horses being kept in the s�able.
General concern was expressed concerning the general trend toward larger sta.bles; not when they are
being used for animal keep but when property ownership changes and they are no longer t�sed for
horses. It was noted that the Rolling Hills Comm�.tnity Associatian is also having discussions on tlus
topic from an architectural perspectiv�;.
Mr. Smith commented that a 2,000 sq. ft. stable should be able to accarnmoda.te most horsekeeping uses.
Ms. Hoffrnan commented that stables should be assessed based on their placement on the lot and the size
of the lot rather than setting a specific limit as to size. She further coFnmented that it is important when
approving large stables to ensure that there is an appropriate amount of corral space to rea�istically
accornrnodate the number of animals in the stable. Ms. Smith echoed Ms. Hoffman's comments that
rather than placing a limit on the size of stabies,the project should be Iooked at in its totality considering
the size of lot,the size of the stable and the size of the corral/turnout. Chairman Chelf suggested setting
a guideline for the size of corra� based on the number of stalls in a stable and sugges#ed that Caballeros
help determine what that number should be.
Further discussion ensured concerning the feasibility of set aside area for future stable and corral space
with the group express�ing a general sentiment that the area should be reviewed for feasibility but no
specific changes were recommended.
Following further discussion concsrning the feasibility of set aside area for future stable and corral space
and the size of stables, the City Council asked the Planning Commission to study this issue in
consultation with members of the Caballeros group in order to develop guidelines as #o what makes a
working and funcrional stable; and what is the appropriate size of a stable and uses within the stable.
SHOULD THE CITY CONSIDER REGULATING THE SIZE OF NEW
RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENTS?
Pianning Director Schwartz provided a brief background on this topic and ir� response to Mayor
Dieringer explained that the Site Plan Review pracess did not begin until 1988 and as such, fmding data
an the size of the house constructed prior to that is difficult.
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Chairman Chelf commented that the Planning Commissian considers how a house fits on a lot and the
design and layout when it reviews project; and considers the overall scale and massing to ensure that the
house fits on the lot.
Counci�member Pieper commented that the position of the house on the lot; its proximity to the
neighboring properties and how much can bee seen from the street or other praperties are more
important than the size of the house. Chairman Che1f further commented that as discussed earlier, it's
not the size of the house that is the issue, its more the amaunt of grading associated with projects.
Mayor Pro Tem Black commented that he applauds the Planning Commission when he looks at the
numbers because the projects are including more basement space, wh�ch limits the rnass at grade and
maintains open space. He commented that he would encourage larger basements and even basements
that go beyond the footprint of the l�ouse where feasible. He further commented that he agrees that the
grading is probably the Iarger issue. Commissioner Kirkpatrick commented that it is importaut to
consider not just the size of the hause, but how it f ts in with the neighbors. Discussion ensued
concerning the irnportance of maintaining the look and feel of the community.
Commissioner Gray expressed concern regarding the upward trend in #he size of houses and suggested
conducting a survey or foru�n amongst the residents to ascertain their thoughts on the size of the houses.
Mayor Dieringer expressed concern regarding basements constructed in an area that may have geologic
issues and the fact the City's current Site Plan Review process does not allow for consideration of
geologic issues. Mayor Pro Tem Black commented that the County engineers review geologic issues
during their review of a project and they are much more qualified to address those issues. Further
discussion ensued concerning the size of houses with the general consensus being that the size of the
houses isn't as much of a concern as the grading associated with the projects. Following discussion, staff
was direc�ed ta discuss with an engineer the feasibility of constructing basements that would extend
beyond the footprint of the house, such as under driveways. Na further action was taken
ADJOURNMENT
Hearing no fixrther business before the City CouncillPlanning Commissian, Mayor Dieringer adjourned
the meeting at 9:16 p.m. The next regular meeting of the City Council is schedu�ed to be he�d on
Monday, November 14, 2016 beginning at 7:00 p.m. in the City Cou.ncil Chamber, Rolling Hills City
Hall, 2 Portuguese Bend Road, Rolling Hills, California. The next regular meeting of the Plarining
Commission is scheduled to be held an Tuesday, November 15, 2016 beginning at 6:30 p.rn, in the City
Council Chamber,Rolling Hills City Hall, 2 Portuguese Bend Road,Rolling Hills, California.
Respectfully submitted,
Heidi Luce
City Clerk
Appraved,
ieringer
Mayor
B d ef
Chairman of the Planning Commi ion
Minutes—City Council/Planning Commission
Joint Meeting/Study Session
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