9/30/1985Lo
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211
MINUTES OF A
JOINT MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND
BOARD OF DIRECTORS, ROLLING HILLS COMMUNITY ASSOCIATION
September 30, 1985
A joint meeting of the City Council of the City of Rolling Hills
and the Board of Directors. of the Rolling Hills Community Association
was called to order at the Administration Building, 2 Portuguese Bend
Road, Rolling Hills, California by Mayor pro tem Pernell at:7:30 p.m.
Monday, September 30, 1985.
ROLL CALL
.PRESENT:
i
ABSENT:
ALSO PRESENT:
PURPOSE.OF MEETING
Councilmembers Leeuwenburgh, Murdock, Swanson
Mayor pro tem Pernell
Directors Lusk, Schmitt. President Stringfellow
Mayor Heins.heimer
Directors Hornberger, Zuehlke
June Cunningham
Peggy Minor
Jerry Farris
George Anast
James Moore.
Arthur Keene
Douglas Hinchliffe
Mel ,Hughes
City Clerk
Manager, RHCA
Los Angeles Times
So. Cal. JPIA
So.. Cal. JPIA
L. A. County Geologist
Councilman, Rancho Palos Verdes
Councilman, Rancho Palos Verdes
Mayor Pernell announced that the purpose of the joint meeting,
customarily held on the fifth Monday of the month, was to discuss
items of mutual interest, specifically a'presentation by the Joint
Powers Insurance Authority, and a discussion of the Flying Triangle
landslide.
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA JOINT POWERS INSURANCE AUTHORITY (S.C.J.P.I.A.) 1690
The Mayor said the City is exploring alternatives to the.City's
current insurance program because of anticipated increases in.premiums
and decreases in deductibles, and he introduced George Anast, Manager
of S.C.J.P.I.A. Mr. Anast said he would make a brief slide presenta-
tion, and then he and James Moore, Programs Coordinator of the program
would answer questions.
After the presentation Mr. Anast explained that he was present
in response'_to`fa request for an explanation of the plan, which has
at present 45 members. Mr. Stringfellow asked whether the plan would
cover the Rolling Hills Community Association, a non-profit corporation.
Mr. Anast said the agreement stipulatss..that only public entites are.
eligible for membership, which eliminates the Community Association.
Mr. Anast.exp.lained the coverage available,.stating that it applies
to the City only. Mayor Pernell explained that there are no public
roads in the City, and the recreational facilities which are City -
owned -are leased to'the Community Association, which also maintains
and controls the roads_. Mr. Anast said the agency could not insure
anything which is not under the City's control.
Councilwoman Swanson asked whether the City would be eligible
for membership in the agency if an agreement could be developed -be-
tween the City and'.Association regarding roads and recreational facil-
ities. Mr. Moore said that in order to become a member the City
would have to assume ownership, maintenance and control of the roads
and other facilities since the liability is assigned to the body that-
is
hatis in control. Board.President Stringfellow said it is essential that
the City and Association do not control each other's entities. Mr.
Anast said it appears that there is no way the City can participate
in,the program and insure roads and other facilities over which it
does not have complete control.
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September 30, 1985
Mayor Pernell asked Mr. Anast to explain the process by which a
City can become a member of S.C.J.P.I.A. Mr. Anast said that if the
Council decided to apply for membership a letter of application should
be sent, a risk audit and review would be made, and a written report
of the survey would be given to the City. The cost for' the study is
2 1/2% of the assumed premium, and if the City is not accepted, or if
the City Council decided not to proceed after the report was received,
the application fee less the actual cost of the survey would be re-
funded. Mr. Moore said that because of the minimal exposures of the
City of Rolling Hills, the net costs would be low, since it is a self-
insurance program, basically. Mr. Anast said the City would be accep-
ted if the Board made the recommendation, and he said that there are
43 cities represented on the Board, and no applications have been de-
nied to date.
Members of the Council and Board thanked Mr. Anast and Mr. Moore
for the presentation.
FLYING TRIANGLE LANDSLIDE 1950
Mr. Arthur Keene said he was present at the invitation of -.-,.thd,:City :1-,
in:.resp6nse to a request by residents of the Flying triangle that a-,.,*:, 1,2
drain on Crest Road be closed and that water be diverted from entering
the Klondike Canyon. Mr. Keene said.that on advice of County Counsel,
no one from the County Flood Control Department would attend the meet-
ing. Mayor Pernell said that some of the Flying Triangle residents
are concerned about the flow of water from Crest Road, and have asked
that the water -be diverted.
Mr. Keene 'said he checked maps in his office and located a draifidge
facility shown in..-the-Thomas.Guide as No. -.6601 near the Georgeff Road -
Buckboard Lane area of Crest Road East. The device is identified as
#2-364-6601, which the Flood Control District informed Mr. Keene is a
code number which indicates that the District floated a bond in 1964
and construction of the drainage facilities, were ,contracted 'under Flood
Control, but were sponsered by individual cities, and this particular
drain was sponsored by the City of Rolling Hills, and the Flood Control
sole responsibility is to maintain it. Mr. Stringfellow asked Mr.
Keene to clarify whether the City installed the drain and the Flood
Control District maintains it, or whether the City paid for the drain
which was installed by and is maintained by the Flood Control District.
Mr. Keene said it is his understanding that the drain was proposed by
the City, the bond was floated by the Flood Control District and was
sponsored by the City. Mr. Keene said he does not know whether the
drain carries water to Klondike Canyon or the Klondike Canyon tributary.
TheAssociation Manager said the drain carries water from Crest Road
through the Georgeff area, terminating in the Poppy Trail area. Direc-
tor Lusk said the drain which carries water to the tributary is on
Crest Road East, and Mks."Minot-sAid it is located at 18 Crest Road
East. Mr. Lusk said there may be another drain west of that location
and Mr. Stringfellow said that is the drain that carries water to
Paintbrush. Mr.' Keene iden*tified.it as No. 507, to Paintbrush, and
he said he is not aware of a drain to Klondike tributary. Mrs. Minor
said the drain to the tributary is an old drain, and she was advised
that it was installed in the 1930's by Palos Verdes Properties. Mr.
Keene said he had checked with the Lomita office of the RoadDepartment
and was advised that there is no drain on Crest Road; further, he said
he will check plans for the area to see whether a drain can be located.
Mayor Pernell asked Mr. Keene to comment on a request by resident
to close the drain. Mr. Keene said letters from Dr. Fritz Hartwig to
the City dated September 14, 1985, stating that the water from Crest
Road was diverted to Klondike Canyon in 1968; were sent to him, and
he was also aware that residents have asked that the drain on Crest
Road be closed. Mr. Keene said that if the water has in fact been
diverted it would create an adverse situation which should be corrected.
Mr. Keene referred to a statement in his July'*I, 1985 letter about ac-
celeration of the main mass slide and draina'ge into the Klondike Canyon
tributary. Mr. Stringfellow said the drain referred to earlier by Mr.
Keene carries large volumes of water to the Poppy Trail area, and has.-.
not been diverted, stating that.an extension of the pipe was installed
to handle the water. Mr. Keene said lie had verified -the lo'cafion
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September 30, 1985 213
of Flood Control facilities on -the Thomas Guide maps and has verified
that the drain at Georgeff drains north to the Poppy Trail area., and
the facility!-thit drains to Paintbrush Canyon has been identified, ,
but he has not been able to locate a drain into the Klondike tributary
or Klondike Canyon.
Councilwoman Murdock said there are two issues; it has been deter-
mined that the drain in front of 18 Crest Road East is not a Flood
Control installation,, and she asked'whAtshould be'done-.about that
particular drain. She suggested that Mr. Keene should be asked to
advise whether water from that drain should be diverted from the
Klondike Canyon and tributary. Mr. Keene said that if at all possible
it should be diverted to the Georgeff area, rather than to the Klon-
dike tributary, which is now being intersected by the slide plane.
At Mr. Lusk's request Mr. Keene defined the Klondike Canyonafid.the
tributary on a photograph of the area. Further, Mr. Keene said there
will be sromedraindge.dsa result. of natural .precipitation from. the
.hillsides, but nothing should be added. Director Lusk said that resi-.
dents have asked thatthe drain be closed to prevent water being put
into the tributary; he -asked whether diverting the water to another
area would create a problem in another area. Mr. Keene said it has
LO been stated that the water was diverted to the Flying Triangle; if it
M has been diverted, it should be.changed back to the original drainage
LL course, and that should not 'create a problem, since the water would be
carried by a facility which was designed to handle it.' Mr. Keene said
it has been determined that Drain No. 6601 carries water north to the
Poppy Trail area and he has not been able to'locate any drain that
flows into the Klondike tributary, and it is his opinion that there is
no such drain'.. Councilwoman Swanson asked whether the flbw of water
residents complain about.is natural drainage, and Mr. Keene said there
is nothing that can be done to prevent water draining downhill short of
buttressing,as discussed in his July 1 report. Mr. Keene said day to
day monitoring would be required to keep the canyon filled. Mr. Lusk
asked Mr. 'Keene- ' '-whether he could estimate the volume".of dirt that would
be,needed,,and Mr.:Keene explained -it would be.necessary to verify the
depth and general-paramie'ters of the slide plane to determine the mass
and inertia of the area moving into Klondike Canyon in order to pro-
vide a.buttressof the 'necessarydensity and strength which will not
break up as the slide moves. Mr. Keene said it could be done without
disturbing any existing residences. Mr. Keene said there are very old
.springs in Klondike Canyon that contribute to water in the area, stat-'
ing that there is constant flow from the spring into the canyon.
Councilwoman Murdock asked.whether the water from the tributary is
significant to the slide and Mr. Keene said that it enters into the
fracture and permeates the slide plane, and the water from the springs
in the canyon and from the tributary should be considered in the de-
sign of a buttress by providing sub -drains to remove it. Mr. Keene
stated that the main Klondike Canyon is the origin of the slide, ex-.'-
plaining that it originated many thousands of years ago, and he -said
it was only marginally stable, and was activated by sustained heavy
rainfall since 1 ' 973. Further, Mr. Keene said the landslide in the east ast is relatively young, and was identified in 1946
by U. S. geologists. Councilwoman Swanson asked whether he has con-
sidered pumping water out of the slide area. Mr. Keene said no water'
has been found in the ground, and if water from springs and drainage
were pumped out disposal would be a problem, since it would be put in-
to other slide areas. Director Lusk asked whether it would be bene-
ficial to remove slide debris from the canyon. Mr.. Keene said it would
not affect the slide, which is moving.lparallel-to the canyon.-.."He(said
removing the.slide debris would improve drainage somewhat, but would
not affect movement of the.slide. Councilwoman Leeuwenburgh said * it
appears the slide is changing, noting a change in the canyon wall be-
low the Evans property at 62 Portuguese Bend Road. Mr. Keene said
the c6nfiguration:of the slide plane is ambulatory, and there is a
point of resistance below the Evans property that has created an up-
lift situation, and he said that what had,been a ridge in the Portu-
guese Bend landslide ten years ago is now a low spot due to such
resistance points. Mayor Pernell said the Council has been advised
of a process by which chemicals can be introduced into the lubricating
plane in an effort to minimize the lubricating effect. Mr. Keene said
injection of lime solution does create greater resistance through a
reaction with the alkaline line, but it is difficult to do.in the
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September 30, 1985
amount and to the depth that would be required, and he said that he
is of the opinion that injecting under pressure as required would
activate the slide.
Councilwoman Swanson asked Mr. Keene to project the slide ac-
tivity within the next fifty years, if possible. Mr. Keene said a
prolonged dry period should slow the slide, but he noted that it
moved during the past summer without any rain at all, and he said
the bentonite.materials in the slide plane retain moisture for a
long period of time, and winter rainfalls often reach those materials
in the summer months, noting that similar mechanics have occurred in
other slide areas in Southern California. Mr. Keene said normal
rainfall of 14 inches per year would have less impact than prolonged
dry periods which could stop the slide or prolonged heavy rains which
would accelerate the movement.
Mr. Stringfellow asked Mr.- Keene to comment on the effect of
putting houses on supports.::Mr..:Keene. said: if the hous.e�. are .puts
on floating foundations that can be adjusted he feels that they
benefit and can be saved. With response to road maintenance, Mr.
Keene said gravel is cheaper than asphalt, and whatever material is
used it is essential to eliminate introduction of rainwater into the
soil. For filling fissures Mr. Keene recommended that a clay -type..
mixture be packed in, topped by gravel.
Councilwoman Leeuwenburgh asked Mr. Keene to comment on houses
in Paintbrush canyon..and he said they are being affected by the newer
landslide which appears to be relatively shallow. He defined the
area on a photograph of the Flying Triangle.
Mayor Pbrnell welcomed Doug Hinchliffe and.Mel Hughes, members
of the Rancho Palos Verdes City Council and invited them to comment.
Mr. Stringfellow asked them to comment on the success of putting
houses on supports. Mr..Hughes said there were in excess of 150
homes in the Portuguese Bend slide area, and over the years 130 homes
have been lost; the 30+ remaining are on jacks.or some sort of support
that can be adjusted. He said such adjustable supports are not at-
tractive, but they are effective. Mr. Stringfellow said he has been
told that some of the houses have moved an incredible distance toward
the ocean. Mr. Hinchliffe said the City does not have an accurate
history of when the .houses. started to move, but records indicate that
some houses have moved as much as 500 feet, but remain intact. Mr.
Hughes said the rehabilitation is done according to County require-
ments, and Mr. Hinchliffe said there have been some problems relative
to boundaries of property, explaining that some homes are in the road-
way or on the wrong.side of the road. In response to questions about
the relocated roadway, they said it is an improvement over the road
it replaced, but is deteriorating rapidly. The Mayor thanked Mr.
Hughes and Mr. Hinchliffe for their appearance.
ADJOURNMENT
The joint meeting was adjourned at 9:30 p.m. Mayor Pernell said
the Council would next meet at the regular meeting on October 14, 1985.
APPROVED:
Mayor
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City Clerk