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4/11/1988RM MINUTES OF A REGULAR MEETING OF THE CITY COUNCIL CITY OF ROLLING HILLS, CALIFORNIA April 11, 1988 A regular meeting of the City Council of the City' of Rolling Hills was called to order at the Administration Building, 2 Portuguese Bend Road, Rolling Hills, California, by Mayor Swanson on Monday, April 11, 1988, at 7:43 p.m. ROLL CALL PRESENT: Councilmembers Heinsheimer, Leeuwenburgh, Murdock, Pernell, Mayor Swanson ABSENT: None ALSO PRESENT: Terrence L. Belanger, City Manager 00 Michael Jenkins City Attorney Betty Volkert Deputy City Clerk Anna Pulido Administrative Intern Capt. Dennis Gillard Sheriff's Department co Ann Johnson Los Angeles Times Q Carol Ryan Daily Breeze Steve Tedesco ASL Consulting Engrs. Rick Zeiser Zeiser Geotechnical Douglas McHattie South Bay Engineering Dr. Dave Basque Resident Mr. John Bennett Resident Mr. & Mrs. John Buchanan Residents Mr. & Mrs. Gilbertson Residents Pat Goodman Resident Mr. Roger Hawkins Resident Mr. W. J. Hines Resident Mr. Paul Iacono Resident Mr. Chester Jenkins Resident Mr. & Mrs. Yu -Ping Liu Residents Mr. Robert Modzeleski Resident Mr. & Mrs. Rodriguez Residents Mrs. Schleissner Resident J CONSENT CALENDAR Mayor Pro Tem Murdock moved that the items on the Consent Calendar be approved as presented. Councilwoman Leeuwenburgh seconded the motion, and it carried unanimously. APPROVAL OF MINUTES The minutes of regular meetings that were held on March 14, 1988, and March 28, 1988, were approved and accepted as written. PAYMENT OF BILLS Demands Nos. 2785 through 2811, in the amount of $20,896.57, were approved for payment from the General Fund. OLD BUSINESS FINAL SUMMARY REPORT ON PRELIMINARY SANITARY SEWER FEASIBILITY STUDY The City Manager reported that the Council has before them the final summary report of the proceedings of the February 29 meeting, including a series of questions which resulted from that meeting and answers to those questions, and an executive summary of the Preliminary Feasibility Study of alternatives to on-site wastewater disposal. As part of the report there is a series of recommendations which are presented for the Council's consideration and action, if they so desire. "M Mayor Swanson asked if there were copies of the report available for the public, and the City Manager verified that there were copies available. The City Manager reviewed questions that were raised at the last Council meeting on March 28, at which staff was directed to obtain the responses. One question involved the potential impact of 25 miles of backfilled ditches that the sewer pipes would be laid into as the system is constructed. There were concerns that those 25 miles of trenching would present a different but similar risk to the property in Rolling Hills, by taking the water out of the ground from septic systems and replacing it with groundwater intrusion as a result of water runoff collecting in the backfilled trenches. The civil engineer from ASL Consulting Engineers, who prepared the feasibility study, Mr. Steve Tedesco, and the geologist who made the present ' ation at the February 29 meeting, Mr. Rick Zeiser, were asked to be present to respond to this concern. Another question which was raised was how one could test the soil for saturation levels and other potential dangers and risks. The geologist will provide a general overview as to how, one could satisfy oneself that their septic system is correctly located and that the soils in which it is placed are receptive to the kind of absorption that the system is designed for. In previous discussions about alternatives to on-site wastewater disposal, a great deal of attention was focused upon septic tank/cesspool systems. Several questions were raised regarding septic systems, and Mayor Swanson asked the City Manager to review those questions. The City Manager discussed the following questions relating to septic tank/cesspool systems: 1. Are there other areas in Los Angeles County that use on-site systems for wastewater disposal? There are wastewater disposal systems located throughout the County, but not nearly in the concentration that one would find in Rolling Hills, except in the County area of Malibu, the City of La Canada-Flintridge and the City of Rolling Hills Estates. 2. How many homes in Malibu, La Canada-Flintridge and Rolling Hills Estates use on-site disposal systems? There are approximately 8,700 housing units in the Malibu Coastal Zone (coast to five miles inland) that use on- site wastewater disposal systems. In La Canada-Flintridge, approximately 6,000 housing units (90% of the total units) use on-site systems. Most of Rolling Hills Estates is served by sanitary sewers; however, there are between 350 and 500 homes, on the east side of the City, that use on-site disposal systems. 3. How many years have these communities been using on- site wastewater disposal systems? In the case of La Canada -Fl intridge and Malibu, they have used on-site wastewater disposal systems since their inception. In the case of Rolling Hills Estates, they have been using on-site systems for approximately the same number of years as the City of Rolling Hills. 4. Do the Cities or County control the maintenance activities related to the on-site wastewater disposal systems? None of these areas control, in any way, the maintenance of their on-site systems. All on-site wastewater disposal systems in Malibu, Rolling Hills Estates and La Canada- Flintridge are maintained privately, by the property owner. - 2 - I E 103 5. What is the function of the County of Los Angeles in regulating the installation of on-site wastewater disposal systems? The County of Los Angeles has numerous technical departments which have responsibilities for many kinds of building and construction activities. In the case of a septic system, there are basically three departments which have a primary role in the placement of those systems. The Geology Department has a responsibility for determining whether the soils on a property are conducive to the placement of the system and the proper functioning of the system. They also verify that there are no problems with the geology that might be triggered by the introduction of water below the surface. The Health Department has a responsibility for determining whether the water that is put into a seepage pit is capable of being absorbed in a specific period of time, generally, at the minimum rate of 2,200 gallons per 24 hours. The Building and Safety Department is responsible for placement of the septic tank to 00 assure that it is not going to present a risk to the buildings on the site. They are also responsible for assuring that the plumbing from the residence to the septic tank is done correctly. 6. Are there firms that would provide septic system CO maintenance services on a municipal franchise basis? < In the Peninsula/South Bay area there are two firms, Atlas Cesspool Service and Hoffman & Son, which do most of the septic tank/cesspool construction, only one of which does septic tank maintenance, that being Atlas Cesspool Service. Two firms that are located in other parts of the County, which do this type of maintenance, are Nottingham and United. In fact, their business consists almost solely of maintaining septic systems. 7. What is the approximate cost of a new septic tank/seepage pit system? Based on discussions with the two firms in the area, the cost can vary, and it really depends upon where the septic system is located and the size of system needed for the size of the structure being built. The system that is being used currently by the largest provider of septic tank systems in the area, is a pre -cast perforated material, which is safer to install and which can be installed in such a way that is more efficient. However, the pre -cast system is more costly. The estimate for a typical four or five bedroom house with a 40 foot seepage pit and 1500 gallon septic tank is about $15,000. One additional question which was posed by the City Manager for the geologist to respond to later in the discussion was: What would a geologist suggest to a homeowner who wanted to look at the subsurface of their property to determine whether the soils had the proper saturation qualities or absorption qualities, and how could the property owner determine 'if there exists a geological condition on the property that could cause a problem if a septic system were installed in close proximity to this condition? Mayor Swanson then asked the consultant from ASL Consulting Engineers, Mr. Steve Tedesco, and the geologist, Mr. Rick Zeiser, to respond to the questions that were previously raised. Mr. Tedesco, ASL Consulting Engineers, addressed the issue of the possible hazard caused by 25 miles of trenching. First, he stated that as part of their final design, should they design and construct this project, ASL would look at limiting in -flow of the trenches because it can be a very serious problem, especially in a steep area, if you get water running along the trench; it can cause the bedding and the backfill to fail, and then the pipes in turn to fail. This matter is always dealt with in final design. ASL Consulting Engineers would hire a soils firm who would take additional borings in the area, and would give ASL an idea of what the excavation would be - 3 - 104 like, what the backfill would be like, what the conditions of construction would be like, afterwhich, ASL would incorporate the soils firm's recommendations into the final design. ASL would also incorporate methods of trenching, methods of backfill that would be safe and that would limit infiltration. ASL Consulting Engineers, as a policy, limits the amount of open trench at any time during construction to 1,000 feet or the amount of pipe that can be laid in one day. Therefore, with regard to infiltration from rainfall, the maximum amount of trench that would be open would be 1,000 feet. In many areas and in many cases, ASL requires that the trenches be backfilled every night. Once a trench is open, the pipe is laid and the trench is then backfilled. It is usually backfilled in layers of 8 -inches to 12 -inches and is compacted to 90% of the relative compaction. This is approximately what would be found in a natural state. This would also limit any additional infiltration into the trenches. They require that the backfill and compaction be tested on a daily basis to verify that the contractor has obtained the required compaction. In the roadway areas, where there would be construction in an existing paved area, the existing pavement would be replaced over the top of the trench, in which case there would be no additional infiltration over that trench. From the study conducted by ASL, the majority of the area to be trenched would fall into this category, i.e., it would be in paved areas. The remaining areas, easements and open land, would be backfilled with a slurry cement seal or a soil cement mixture, per Los Angeles County standards. This would be a mixture of the native soil and cement, which forms a material that is about as hard as concrete but not as strong as concrete. This is to limit infiltration as well as settlement in the easement areas. It was Mr. Tedesco's opinion that, if the trenching is properly done, it would be very unlikely that it would add to the infiltration in the area. Councilman Pernell asked about the possible impact of disturbing and cutting through the underground strata, as brought up at the last meeting by Mr. Bill Horn. Councilman Pernell asked how, or if, it is possible to more or less knit the strata back together to make it as strong as it was originally. Mayor Swanson asked Mr. Zeiser, the geologist, to respond to this question. Mr. Zeiser stated that when hillside grading or construction is performed, often times the strata is disrupted. If nothing were put back in its place to provide lateral support, a long-term problem might develop. However, when a buttress or replacement fill is provided, in actuality, the result is stronger than the original strata structure. In the case of the sewer construction, you would not be creating a slope, only cutting into an existing slope and then filling it back in. Therefore, from a geology standpoint, Mr. Zeiser stated that he did not feel that the strength of the strata would be disrupted. However, Councilman Pernell expressed his doubts that a backfilled trench would provide more strength than the original, undisturbed, subsurface planes. Mr. Zeiser commented that Councilman Pernell might have a valid point if it could be proved that the subsurface planes were all continuous sheets. However, the area has gone through a great deal of geologic change, and it is probable that the planes are fractured and broken. Councilman Pernell, however, felt that the burden of proof should be on the disruptor not on the existing condition. The City Manager carried this discussion one step further and asked, given the assumption that the subsurface is shale and provides a myriad of pathways for water to travel, what kind of things can be done, once the shale is cut into and fractured, to ensure that the intrusion of water on the uphill side, when it hits the buttressing structure, does not flow down the buttress seeking the bottom of the trench? Mr. Zeiser stated that first one has to assume that there would be water intrusion into the trench. If this were the case, it would in fact follow gravity, thereby, hitting the shading or the sandy material around the pipe and will follow that path. The City Manager asked if it is possible that it could hit the shading material, follow the path of the pipe, and then pickup another pathway on the other side of the trench and flow out that way; or, is it more likely that the water would travel down the pipe, much like a wire? Mr. Zeiser - 4 - MR stated that there is a possibility that it could flow down one side of the trench, find a permeable surface on the other side and then follow that path. However, it was, his opinion that it would most likely follow the trench. Mr­­.'J,-2,#Ae'sco stated that they have seen in the past where water has gone .do ' w'n in the trench and has followed along in the trench area. In areas where you have very steep slopes one. must go to extreme measures to limit that. At times, builders will place sandbags or pour a concrete collar every five hundred or a thousand feet so that the water doesn't pick up speed and start an erosion process that would carry sand material away from the pipe, which can be a very serious problem. Special precautions to limit the velocity of the water within the trenches is usually only done in very steep areas because in fairly flat areas this isn't a problem. The other question, which was addressed to Mr. Zeiser, was what does a homeowner who is installing a septic tank system have to do to assure themselves that they have reduced the risks related to the location on the site and the operation of the system. What kinds of things would a geologist advise a homeowner to do from a geology/soils standpoint? Mr. Zeiser said that one issue is stability.- To determine stability, one would have to do some research CO on the site and the surrounding area, and determine what the impacts rwould be on the geology, i.e., in what direction are the bedding LO planes. Normally,' in the process of this research, they would excavate borings which they would sample and log to determine, in that specific area, what the subsurface conditions are. This would CO satisfy the geology part of their investigation. The second half of the investigation, the on-site sewage system, involves drilling another series of holes which are usually smaller in diameter (V or 8") to the desired zone at a minimum depth, and then essentially filling it with water and waiting to see how fast it dissipates. There are certain criteria while this is being done. It is timed to see how fast the water level drops. This is called a percolation test. Mayor Swanson commented that at the public hearing which was held 'at Miraleste High School, Mr. Zeiser stated that it is undesirable to continue to introduce effluent into the ground, and that it is only a matter of time, maybe 20 or 30 years or longer, until the soil reaches total saturation and will eventually result in some form of a slide or slope instability. Mayor Swanson said she was concerned with that statement, and questioned whether this has been proven in a laboratory or has actually -occurred. If Sol in which cities has this occurred? The soil in Rolling Hills is very different from that in La Canada -Fl intridge or Malibu, which is rocky. How could this prediction be verified other than waiting for a disaster to happen, at which time it is too late? What can be done in the way of testing the soil for saturation? Mr. Zeiser stated that what he said at the public hearing was that if you have an open system it means that for every gallon of water put into the ground it goes out somewhere else, i.e., it passes through. He doesn't know that Rolling Hills is an open system; most systems are not 100% open. Therefore, the water, at some point, is being retained in the subsurface. Depending upon how much is being put in, that level of water will rise. The definitive way to determine the saturation level in the City would be to review some water well data and see if the water in the water wells is actually rising. Big Rock Mesa, in the Malibu area, is an example of the impact resulting from the long-term introduction of water into the subsurface. Mr. Zeiser explained that he is not saying that it would absolutely happen or that it would affect the entire City; there are probably local areas that are more susceptible than others. The City is an area of known instability. Any additional introduction of water into the subsurface, assuming that it is not an open system, will collect and saturate the subgrade soil. Mr. W. J. Hines, 73 Eastfield Drive, referenced various statements made by Mr. Zeiser, and remarked that it is his, feeling that there is a high degree of uncertainty with respect to ground stability in various areas, and whether or not water is collecting - 5 - 106 in the subsurface or completely dissipating. It was Mr. Hines' feeling that the installation of sewers would be a great expense to solve a problem that may not exist. Mr. Zeiser agreed that there is uncertainty with respect to the subsurface conditions and stated that more geologic work needs to be done. However, he felt that more geologic studies would be conducted before the project were to begin. Mr. Tedesco commented that there is a lot of uncertainty because this is only in the feasibility stage. Before there would be any further design there would be additional geological information that would have to be taken. Mayor Swanson explained to Mr. Hines that the next phase, the design and engineering phase, which would cost approximately $2 million, would go into more depth and would involve the study of specific geologic conditions. This feasibility study is just a sampler. Mayor Swanson explained that the cost/benefit ratio is a major concern of the Council and that is one reason for holding the public hearings. Mr. Hines asked the consultants if either one of them has conducted such a geologic study in the past, and Mr. Zeiser remarked that he had. Mr. Hines then asked if the results were conclusive, and Mr. Zeiser responded that they were. Councilman Pernell remarked that the feasibility study indicates that this project would be possible under certain circumstances and parameters. Councilman Pernell asked if there might be conditions that could exist, which might be discovered after further exploration, that could cause Mr. Tedesco or Mr. Zeiser to recommend that the City not proceed with this project? Mr. Tedesco said that there is a possibility of that happening, however, it is very slim, with the exception of the Flying Triangle area. Mr. Zeiser agreed with Mr. Tedesco. Mr. John Buchanan, 19 Bowie Road, asked Mr. Zeiser which specific areas he feels are most prone to sliding? Mr. Zeiser commented that they would probably be the areas that have been identified in the past by others, i.e., per Cleveland's maps. Mr. Chester Jenkins, 10 Southfield, referenced the last paragraph on page 4 of the summary report, stating that it speaks in very vague terms. Mayor Swanson explained that this section of the summary report is composed of staff comments and was not prepared by the consultants. The City Manager remarked that this paragraph was intended to be a general response to the proposed question, simply as an indication that these kind of structures can be designed in such a way as to provide some stability to the uphill side if that is what is necessary or to provide some kind of barrier to water intrusion if that is what is necessary in the trenches. Mr. Jenkins then asked Mr. Tedesco if ASL, in figuring the cost of the project had taken into consideration the cost of the mitigation methods mentioned previously, i.e., concrete collars? Mr. Tedesco responded that they had taken this into consideration. Mr. Tedesco stated that ASL did their cost analysis with the assumption that they would have to meet all of the Los Angeles County requirements and standards, which are extremely stringent. Mr. Tedesco said that whatever precautions are necessary to prevent slides would be taken. The City Manager also explained to Mr. Jenkins that the City of Rolling Hills contracts with the County of Los Angeles for engineering services and building and safety services, and the City adopts the codes that the County uses, by reference, into our code. Mr. Paul Iacono, 93 Saddleback Road, asked how the residents would be assessed if the City proceeds with this project? Would the assessment be on an acreage basis or, possibly, on the basis of the amount of street frontage of the property being served. Mr. Iacono also asked for clarification of the cost of the sewer laterals and the connection fees. He stated that the estimated 50 foot lateral for each home is an unrealistic calculation, and that the majority of homes in the City would require a lateral much greater in length. �sVE n, 1 Mayor Swanson explained that the cost estimate for the sewer lateral was based on $30 per linear foot,. therefore, each property owner could calculate the approximate„cos.t..of their lateral based on that figure. The City Manager explained that the original estimate of $2,700 for hookup had included an estimated cost of a sewer lateral of 50 feet. The cost of the sewer lateral has now been excluded from the calculation of the hookup fee. The connection cost would now be computed as follows: approximately $800 for the County Sanitation District; plus, approximately $150 for the Los Angeles County Public Works connection fee; plus, approximately $300 to disconnect the septic system; and, then, an additional $30 per linear foot for the lateral, which would vary with each property. Mr. Iacono said that it's conceivable that a property might require a 1,000 foot lateral and, depending upon the circumstances, it could cost as much as $40,000 to hookup. Mr. Iacono also asked if the cost of this project would be shared equally among the property owners, irregardless of the size of the property being served. Mayor Swanson explained that the, method of assessment has not been determined, as of yet. Mr. Iacono said that 00 he feels that this should be decided and the homeowners informed before the City proceeds. Mr. Iacono also asked about the estimated duration of the construction. Mr. Tedesco stated that the construction would probably m be about one year. Mr. Iacono asked if it might take as long as Q two years, taking into account the weather conditions and other variables. Mr. Tedesco said that he doubted it would take that long. Mr. Iacono also asked what happens with respect to the pumping stations when there is a power outage. Mr. Tedesco explained that all the pumping stations would be radio connected to a central control unit, and when the power goes out an alarm is triggered at the control station where someone is dispatched to the area with an' emergency generator. Mr. Hines, 73 Eastfield Drive, asked the geologist, Mr. Zeiser,. for his interpretation of the indicated slides on the George Cleveland maps, and whether or not they are pertinent to our situation. In Mr. Hines' opinion, these indicated slides are not a realistic consideration with respect to sewers. Mayor Swanson asked Mr. Zeiser to speak on the validity of the Cleveland maps. Mr. Zeiser stated that, according to Mr. Cleveland, his maps were prepared by studying aerial photographs. Based on his review of these photographs he found physical features on the land form that suggested there were landslide masses or masses that have the characteristics of landslides. He did not verify these with subsurface exploration, for example, by drilling; nevertheless, mapping using aerial photographs is a state-of-the-art method of investigation. These specific areas would have to be studied further to determine if, in fact, they are landslide areas. Mr. Hines stated that he believes the kinds of slides which are indicated on the Cleveland maps are very common in hilly areas and are not related to the subject of reducing water content in the soil to prevent other slides. Councilman Pernell asked in the event of a power outage, what kind of lead time or capacity does the system have before the auxillary pumps would have to be introduced. Mr. Tedesco explained that most of the pumping stations probably would have two to three hours of storage capacity. The worst case situation, assuming that no one came to service the pump stations if the power went out, would be an overflow problem. The system would be designed such that if this occurred, it would overflow onto the ground and not backup into the houses. It would be required that this be designed into the system. Councilman Pernell asked what would happen to the sewage that is introduced into the system after the power outage occurs and until power is restored. Mr. Tedesco stated that it would continue to go into the system and spill onto the ground, assuming a backup generator were not made available. Mr. Tedesco remarked that sewer pumping stations are not a new technology; it is something that has been used for approximately 50 years. - 7 - ME: The Councilmembers then discussed the matter. Councilman Pernell commented that staff has researched two areas, Malibu and Rolling Hills Estates,, as examples in determining what direction the City might take. Councilman Pernell asked what kind of criteria was used in determining these areas as examples. Mr. Belanger explained that the intent in using those cities, in addition to La Canada-Flintridge, was to evaluate those cities that have a large concentration of these kinds of systems. The primary purpose was to focus on the issue of the on-site wastewater system. There are two systems which are being evaluated: the current on-site wastewater disposal system and sanitary sewers. Part of the purpose was to evaluate those cities and areas in Los Angeles County that use a similar kind of wastewater disposal system as the City of Rolling Hills, and to do some comparison and provide contrasting analysis and information as to how these cities handle the issues of maintenance and construction. Councilman Pernell confirmed with staff that from information which was received, none of these locales were involved in the maintenance of the systems on a city-wide basis; the systems were independently managed by the property owners. However, one of staff's recommendations is to investigate the feasibility and desirability of establishing jurisdiction over the monitoring and maintenance of the septic systems. Councilman Pernell asked if there is anywhere in the country where this kind of jurisdiction has been established and, if so, what kind of problems, if any,, have been identified. The City Manager stated that in the State of California, the one area that has a wastewater management zone is Stinson Beach in northern California. This zone was established by legislation, and is called an "on-site Wastewater Management Zone". It is a zone that the County of Los Angeles is currently looking at for areas of Malibu that are close to the ocean. These management zones are concerned with keeping the effluent sufficiently above the water table so that they don't come together, which is the purpose of the zone. Councilman Pernell asked how long the Stinson Beach zone has been formed, and the City Manager responded that it was formed by recent legislation, not more than two or three years ago. Councilman Pernell asked how many homes are in the zone, however, the City Manager did not have that information. Mayor Pro Tem Murdock asked what the benefits would be of establishing a septic system maintenance district, other than the obvious benefit of being able to establish the level of effluent in a septic tank. The City Manager explained that, in addition to the benefit mentioned by Mayor Pro Tem Murdock,, the district would be able to evaluate the site so that if the system begins to show signs of dysfunction as a result of a soil condition or movement of the material in which the system is located, the problem could be identified and rectified before the system breaks down rather than becoming aware of the problem after the fact and, when in most cases, it is too late to resolve. If risk management is of concern, one way of reducing the risk is to make sure that the location of the septic system and seepage pits are in the best possible locations on the site. Mayor Swanson verified with Mr. Zeiser that another issue, with regard to risk management,, is the monitoring of the water retention level. City Manager Belanger explained that the primary issue is that most individuals tend to view their property parochially, and there is no way of getting an overview of the effect of one piece of property relative to another when they are individually managed. The maintenance district would provide this kind of overview and corelation of all the information. The City Manager explained that the maintenance district would follow the same principle as the flood control district; all the properties involved would be taken into account, and the effects that each one has on the other related properties would also be taken into consideration. The down side of this kind of district is that, once it is established, the City acquires a tremendous amount of potential for liability. At the present time, the liability for these systems is upon the individual property owner. ■M.*M With regard to staff's recommendation on page 5 of the summary report, that being that staff be directed to immediately implement alternatives numbers 1 and 2, Councilman Pernell asked if there is a fiscal impact in doing Manager explained that there would not be a fiscal impact. I ' t is simply a matter of obtaining the necessary information and disseminating it to the Councilmembers as quickly as possible. The City Manager indicated that, from staff's point of view, the more important alternative is number 1. The City Manager remarked that, since the City currently has septic tank/seepage pit systems, an improved awareness and consciousness of the people concerning this kind of wastewater disposal system would benefit the community. Therefore, providing this information to the homeowners is very important. Councilman Heinsheimer suggested that the consultants review the summary report and make technical comments if necessary, afterwhich, it could be distributed to the community. Councilman Heinsheimer remarked that there are probably many people who would be interested in the report, and that it is written in a way that would have a beneficial impact when published and distributed to 00 the community. N --i Councilman Pernell suggested that all the major concerns that LO have been expressed be compiled and circulated in addition to the -D report. Mayor Swanson informed the Council that the City Manager co has been compiling a file of all the information that has been gathered during this feasibility study process. Mayor Swanson asked < whether these additional files should be made available for the homeowners to pickup at City Hall. Councilman . Pernell and Councilwoman Leeuwenburgh felt that both should be provided. The City Manager said that the concerns and questions that were raised at this meeting tonight, especially those that are different from the ones listed in the summary report which were as a result of the February 29 public hearing, will be added to the file and he would try to incorporate them into the "Question and Answer" section of the report. Mayor Pro Tem Murdock also requested that information be included regarding recommendations on how to treat septic systems. Mayor Pro Tem Murdock said that many people don't know how to maintain their septic systems and this information could raise their awareness and be very beneficial. Councilman Heinsheimer commented that these are really two separate issues. The first issue at hand is the publishing, in a coherent fashion, of the results of the feasibility study. The other issue is providing educational information, which could be done either parallel with or subsequent to publishing the summary report. if acceptable to the City Council, Councilman Heinsheimer suggested that the summary report be updated to include the most recent concerns, the consultants review it and make whatever technical comments might be necessary, and the Council review it, afterwhich, a cover letter from the Mayor be prepared and sent to everyone in the community. In the cover letter, the residents could be informed that additional information is available and where they could get a copy of it. Then, subsequently, as a separate action, provide the educational information on septic tank maintenance. He thought it was better not to link those two issues so as not to give the impression that the City started out on a sewer feasibility study and ended up with a septic tank maintenance program. Mayor Pro Tem Murdock agreed with Councilman Heinsheimer. Mayor Swanson then stated that it would be a two phase approach: the first being the informative phase, and the second being the consciousness raising regarding septic tank maintenance. Councilman Heinsheimer stated that this would allow time to receive comments from the residents, afterwhich, perhaps this matter could be put back on the agenda after 60 days or so, and the Council could determine what, if any, other actions might be appropriate. Mayor Swanson said that it is very important that all the residents know that the Council is listening to them and is interested in all their comments. The Mayor stated that the Council also has a responsibility to thoroughly research this issue since the residents requested that this study be conducted. The Mayor explained that - 9 - "W1 the Council is trying to gather as much information as possible. At this point, the Council is trying to determine how best to educate everyone, how to improve the conditions, and what exactly can be done to determine what is happening underground, while, at the same time, trying to keep the costs to a minimum. An idea being considered is the possibility of determining the saturation levels of the subsurface and possibly conducting a joint study with the City of Rancho Palos Verdes in specific test areas pertaining to the Flying Triangle. This matter will be coming up in the near future, and is something that would be done in preparation for the work that the Corps of Engineers will be doing in the Flying Triangle area. However,, the Mayor asked that the City Manager explore the possible benefits of having test samples taken in certain areas in the City to determine whether the saturation levels are high, normal, out of the ordinary, etc., and what could be learned from these test samples. Another possibility to consider in the future, once all necessary and pertinent information has been gathered, would be to put this matter on the ballot because those that would be paying for it should be involved in making the decision. If it were to be placed on the ballot, the earliest date possible would be the November election. For that purpose, the City would provide sufficient information so that the public could make a decision based on facts. The Mayor stated that she has doubts about putting this matter on the ballot since the majority of comments that have been received in testimony from residents at the different public hearings have indicated that they don't want sewers. Since those residents that are in favor have been silent, Mayor Swanson said that she is cautious about putting an item on the ballot unless there is a strong indication that there are more people in favor of it. The Mayor expressed her concern that this matter might create a furor in the community. The Mayor expressed her feeling that everyone has a responsibility to take care of the environment, however, we must be very sure that whatever decision is made doesn't create a hazard in the future. Mr. Jenkins, 10 Southfield, asked if the depreciation cost for the system had been included in ASL's estimated cost of the sewer system. The City Manager said that it had not been figured into the total cost of the system. Councilman Pernell asked what the expected life of the system is anticipated to be, and the City Manager said that it would have to be a minimum of 30 years if that is what it is bonded for, and that its actual life would probably be a minimum of 40 years or more. The City Manager explained that what Mr. Jenkins is referring to is that every year, for 30 years, an amount of money would be put aside so that the system could be replaced. Mr. Jenkins said that if it were to cost $2,500 per year now, an additional $2,500 per year per homeowner would be needed to be able to replace the system at the end of 30 years. Mayor Swanson said that there is also a built in factor, in that figure, for maintenance of the system during the duration of the 30 year bond. Mr. Tedesco said that the cost estimates that were used assumed that the system would be turned over to the County of Los Angeles and that they would maintain it. The City would pay a monthly charge for them to maintain it once it becomes part of their system. After the system is constructed, it becomes the County's system and they maintain it. Councilman Pernell asked if that is in perpetuity, and if the maintenance fee would pay for anything, including replacement, and Mr. Tedesco said that it should. In all the assessment districts that ASL Consulting Engineers has done on the Peninsula, there was no set aside cost to pay for the replacement of the system at the end of 30 years. It was assumed that as the maintenance fee was paid every month, the County would continue to maintain it. Mr. John Bennett, 3 Eastfield Drive, said that he feels discussing sewers at this time, following the recent lawsuit decisions in the Flying Triangle, is poor timing and advantageous to the proponents of the sewer system. Mr. Bennett asked what percentage it would take to defeat this proposal if it did indeed come to a vote. And, Mr. Bennett asked if it should fail to come to a vote, if a 'petition would be sufficient to prohibit this project from proceeding. i I 111 Mr. Michael Jenkins, City Attorney, said that a majority protest of the properties within the proposed district could successfully protest the formation of such a district, however, the Council could, by a four-fifths (4/5) vote i'­`&v4ir_-ide that protest. No election is required for the formation of a district. The Council could form it, a majority of property owners could protest it, but, a four-fifths (4/5) vote of the Council could override the protest and proceed with the district. Mayor Swanson explained that it is possible that there might be an area of the City that would approach the City Council with a petition requesting that a sewer system be installed in their specific area. The total amount of land that would be served by that system would be calculated and, then, the decision to proceed would be based on the percentage of successful petitions with the Council. It would be possible to have isolated areas on sewer systems. Mr. Bennett* asked how many residents originally approached the Council on the matter of having a sewer system. Mayor Swanson replied that at both the 1985 and 1986 Annual Meetings of the Homeowners' Association, a resident brought up the matter, a vote was taken, and everyone present voted in favor of conducting a feasibility study. 00 Councilman Heinsheimer expounded on this topic and explained that T-1 at this time there was a large body of citizens in the community who felt that investing money, in the order of tens of thousands or even a hundred thousand dollars, in the general improvement in co the state of knowledge concerning the City would be beneficial. It was the sentiment at the time that investing in geotechnical < knowledge was a wise thing to do. In so doing, a data base has been created that allows individual property owners to make better decisions, in general, on how they handle their septic tanks or where they want to live, etc. Also, there was some interest in the possibility of small trunk sewer systems, one of which does exist in the City, i.e., the subdivision at the end of Johns Canyon Road. Now, it is incumbent on those people who want to move beyond the stage of information gathering and distribution, to actual feasibility analysis or construction to identify those areas in the City where there is a desire for a different system and bring those people together in a neighborhood meeting. Then, if this is something that is desirable, they should try to work out the mechanism with the City for possibly creating a district that is a subset of the City. Councilman Heinsheimer commented that, presently, it doesn't look like the interest in the community is such that it is reasonableto expect or to fear that a city-wide sewer project would occur in the near future. However, the City has provided the data base so that if people in smaller specific areas which are contiguous to the lines that could be connected to, feel that this is something they would like to pursue, the City would assist them. Councilman Pernell discussed the fact that this is a very open Council, and that the Council would not take any action without the support of the community. Mayor Swanson assured Mr. Bennett that the Council would only override a majority protest if it were determined that a hazardous situation existed. Councilwoman Leeuwenburgh asked if ASL had an estimated prorated cost for smaller districts,, for example, whether an additional 5% or 10% should be added onto the per resident charge for a city-wide system. Mr. Tedesco said that the cost would increase but it would vary widely, depending upon the size and proximity of the property to the mainline. As a result of the feasibility study, it would be fairly easy to determine which areas lend themselves to small districts. MEETING RECESSED The meeting was recessed at 9:40 p.m. MEETING RECONVENED Mayor Swanson reconvened the meeting at 9:48 p.m. 112 Mayor Swanson commented that the Council had not formally received the Preliminary Sanitary Sewer Feasibility Study. Councilman Heinsheimer so moved. Councilman Pernell seconded the motion, and it carried unanimously. PUBLIC HEARING ZONING CASE NO. 355, YU-PING LIUr 39 CREST ROAD WEST This matter is before the Council to hear an appeal of the Planning Commission's approval of Zoning Case No. 355, a request by Yu -Ping Liu for a Conditional Use Permit for a tennis court at 39 Crest Road West. The City Manager reported that appeals were filed by the adjacent property owners, Mr. and Mrs. 011a and Mr. and Mrs. Hawkins. The City Manager displayed the site development plan, and informed the Council that the proposed tennis court would be located 75 feet from, the 011a residence and 90 feet from the Hawkins residence. Councilman Heinsheimer confirmed with the City Manager that the plans that the Council were viewing were the same plans that the Planning Commission reviewed and approved. Councilman Heinsheimer commented that Mr. and Mrs. 011a had recently, for the purpose of this meeting, submitted another letter indicating that they would like to see certain mitigation steps taken if the Council were to decide to approve this request. However, the City Manager said that one of the mitigation measures that the 011as have requested is a wall that is greater in height than is currently allowed by Ordinance 215. Other than the wall, Councilman Heinsheimer asked if the applicants find these mitigation measures acceptable, and the City Manager indicated that these restrictions are acceptable to the applicant. The City Manager went on to say that the Planning Commission approved Zoning Case No. 355 on a split vote of 3 to 2. The appellants, in this particular case, did submit letters of objection at the time of the public hearings that were held by the Planning Commission. Mayor Swanson opened the public hearing, and invited comments from the audience. Mr. Yu -Ping Liu, 39 Crest Road West, addressed the Council. Mr. Liu informed the Council that he had sent a letter to all the Councilmembers regarding this matter. He said that it is his understanding that the neighbors' major objection is the noise factor. However, Mr. Liu said it has been shown that a tennis court, per se, does not create noise it is the people that use the tennis court that cause the noise. Mr. Liu continued to summarize the letter that he had sent to the Councilmembers, and pointed out that the minimum height of the retaining wall, which is mentioned in the letter, should have read four feet instead of five feet. Mr. Liu stated that the fact that this will be a sunken court will be of benefit to the neighbors and very costly to him. The Lius met with the 011as and demonstrated how effective a retaining wall can be in reducing the noise. With regard to the neighbors' concern about subsequent homeowners, Mr. Liu stated that he and his family like Rolling Hills very much, that he has a very good job as a Vice President at Northrop and doesn't anticipate that changing and, therefore, has no intention of selling his home and moving. Mr. Liu also reported that Mr. Hawkins had indicated that he would withdraw his appeal if a clause were put into the Conditional Use Permit that there would be no playing before the hour of 8:00 a.m. or after dusk, however, there were concerns on the part of the City Manager about the technicality of changing the conditions of the Conditional Use Permit after it had already been approved. Mr. Liu reported that this proposed tennis court complies with all the requirements of Ordinance 215 and with the guidelines of the policy - 12 - 113' memorandum of March, 1980. In addition, Mr. Liu stated that he is more than willing to limit playing hours and to plant additional screening to further mitigate the noise from the view of the tennis court. Mr. Hawkins, 37 Crest Road West, spoke on the issues that were of concern to him and his wife. Their primary concern is that of noise since the tennis court would be 90 feet from their bedroom. Mr. Hawkins said that they moved to the City for peace and tranquillity. Mr. Hawkins said that he met with Mr. Liu and had told Mr. Liu that he would be willing to withdraw the appeal if certain mitigation measures were agreed to which included restricting the use of the court during specific hours, eliminating any portable or permanent lighting, not having any other kind of recreational facility on the tennis court itself, and planting landscaping specifically for noise control. Mr. Hawkins said that they also have concerns about subsequent neighbors and whether they would be as agreeable to those conditions as the Lius. Mr. Hawkins commented that he has a bias against the court being built because he would rather not venture into the unknown and have to deal with a difficult situation that might arise with a subsequent neighbor. Mr. Hawkins 00 said, however, that he has every confidence that Mr. and Mrs. Liu T -i would be very responsible neighbors. Mr. Hawkins stated that, should LO the Council decide to approve this request, he would hope that there would be sufficient conditions in the Conditional Use Permit such that the adjacent neighbors are protected as much as possible. If there is a way that the concerns that have been expressed can be < mitigated that would make everybody reasonably happy, that would be acceptable to Mr. Hawkins. Councilman Heinsheimer commented that something else Mr. Hawkins should take into consideration is that at some time in the future, it is conceivable and probable that there would be a different City Council and Planning Commission. There is a sentiment in the community that all the regulations are much too restrictive and that homeowners should be allowed to develop their property as they see fit. However, so far, this viewpoint has not prevailed, and the current Council and Planning Commission have tried to maintain strict requirements. But, that is not to say that this will always be the case. Thus, it might be advisable to try to reach a mutually acceptable agreement at this time. Councilman Heinsheimer suggested that this matter be tabled for a couple.of weeks to give the three homeowners involved a chance to work out acceptable mitigation measures and have them incorporated into the plan, afterwhich, the Council would review the revised plan and then take action on it. Mayor Pro Tem Murdock also had a question regarding the mitigation measures outlined in the letter from Mr. and Mrs. 011a. Mayor Pro Tem Murdock asked if the wall at the north end of the court that the 011as are requesting would be in violation of the zoning ordinance. The City Manager stated that if the wall were 4 feet or less in height it would meet the conditions of the code; if it were higher than that it would not. Also, Mayor Pro Tem Murdock said that it is her understanding that conditions which are attached to a Conditional Use Permit or Variance run with the property and not with the property owner. The City Manager confirmed that that is indeed the case; they are recorded with the property. Councilman Pernell said that he interprets the letter from the 011as as a request for denial, with a fallback position that, at the very least, mitigation measures be imposed should the Council decide to approve the applicant's request for a Conditional Use Permit for a tennis court. Councilman Pernell said that he, personally, would like to take a look at the site and the proposed location of the tennis court. Mr. Doug McHattie, South Bay Engineering, reported to the Council that the part of the 011a's house that would be nearest to the tennis court is the garage. Mr. McHattie also stated that he had spoken with Mrs. Hawkins about the mitigating landscaping, and she has a - 13 - 114 book which she has offered to loan the applicants, that explains how to build the landscaping up from a small bush next to the court to progressively taller and taller bushes that send the sound upward. Also, Mr. McHattie pointed out that the 011a's property is located 15 feet below the Liu property. Councilman Pernell asked Mr. McHattie if he knew what kind of wall at the north end of the court Mr. and Mrs. 011a would find acceptable. Mr. McHattie replied that he did not know what they had in mind,, but there have been great advances in the materials that walls are constructed with, such as sound absorbing blocks. Councilman Pernell asked if the restriction on playing time were imposed and then violated, how enforcement would be handled. The City Manager explained that, generally, the code is enforced on a complaint basis. If a complaint were received, a letter would be sent or a personal visit made informing the individuals that they were in violation of their Conditional Use Permit. If it happened again, the Conditional Use Permit would be revoked and, if necessary, the matter could be turned over to the District Attorney. Councilman Pernell expressed concern about the time and cost involved to the City, should enforcement proceedings become necessary. The City Attorney stated that there are several things the City could do: the City could go through a revocation procedure and then order that the court be removed; or, if the owner refused to remove it, the City could have it removed by having it graded out; or, the City could go to court for an injunction to force the owners to remove it, either before or after revocation proceedings. Also, the City could put into the permit some condition that the owner would be responsible for paying the costs of the removal, and that they would be recoverable, including attorney's fees, in the event that it becomes necessary to go to court. Mayor Swanson ordered that the public hearing be continued to the next City Council meeting, on April 25, 1988, and a field trip to the site be scheduled for Wednesday, April 13, at 7:00 a.m. The applicants were asked to stake the location of the proposed tennis court and the height of the fence around the tennis court. Councilman Pernell stated that the Council should act on this request based solely on the physical characteristics and location of the proposed tennis court, pursuant to the field investigation, and not based on the possibility of limiting hours of play, which would be very difficult to enforce. NEW BUSINESS REPORT ON BUDGETARY AND ACCOUNTING POLICIES The Mayor said that the Council had before them a report on budgetary and accounting policies, which was provided for their information. The City Manager commented that it would be incorporated into the budget. Councilman Heinsheimer moved that the report be approved. Councilman Pernell seconded the motion, and it carried unanimously. OPEN AGENDA Mayor Swanson invited public comment on any matter which was not on the agenda. Dr. Basque, 49 Eastfield Drive, addressed the Council about a vegetation problem that has existed for 10 or 12 years at 41 Eastfield Drive. Dr. Basque said that when this lot was first being developed, he noticed that the owners were planting in the easement, and he brought this to the attention of the, then, City Manager, however,, nothing was done about it. At the same time, the owners also planted trees around their house. As the trees matured, the vegetation problem became worse. Then, about a year ago, Dr. Basque learned that the owners of this property were requesting a variance, - 14 - 1 t. 5'. and decided that this might be an opportunity to require that the landscaping be taken care of as a condition of granting the variance. Hence, Dr. Basque presented this suggestion to the Council at their meeting on May 12, 1987. At the May 26, 1987, City Council meeting, the property owner was in attendance to present his case for a variance. Dr. Basque referenced the minutes of that meeting. Dr. Basque said that the reason he was bringing this to the Council's attention was because, although the owner has removed one tree which was located at the site of the swimming pool, the owner has not done anything about any of the other trees, per the conditions of the variance. Councilman Heinsheimer commented that it needs to be determined whether or not a landscaping plan was approved by the Planning Commission, and, if so, whether or not it included the elimination of view obstruction, as directed at the meeting on May 26, 1987. Mayor Swanson stated that the best way of proceeding would be CO for Dr. Basque to discuss this matter with the City Manager, rafterwhich, the City Manager would execute the conditions that were Lo applied at the time of approval of the request. —3 MATTERS FROM MEMBERS OF THE CITY COUNCIL co < 3K Walk Mayor Swanson reported that there would be a 3K walk sponsored by the library district, on April 30, at 8:00 a.m. The Mayor suggested that this matter be advertised in the newsletter, inviting residents to participate as a community group. And, if any Councilmembers wish to participate they should contact the City Manager. Planning Commission Applications The Mayor announced that a number of applications and resumes have been submitted for the Planning Commission vacancy. Mayor Swanson said that she would like to have a committee interview all the applicants, afterwhich, the committee would recommend three finalists to come before the City Council for an interview. Councilman Pernell pointed out that the term of one of the Planning Commissioners has expired. Currently, the policy is to routinely reappoint a Commissioner when his/her term has expired. Councilman Pernell suggested that the Council adopt a policy whereby, at the end of a Commissioner's term, the Commissioner would be required to reapply to remain in that position and would be considered along with other applicants. However, it was felt that an interview would not be necessary since the incumbent Commissioner would already have a record of performance. Councilwoman Leeuwenburgh commented that it might be more appropriate to begin this policy after giving the Commission fair warning that this would be the new procedure, and not at a time when there is an unexpired vacancy on the Commission. Councilman Heinsheimer suggested that it might be a more positive experience for the finalists if they were not interviewed in public, and that perhaps this could be done in closed session. MATTERS FROM STAFF Building, Zoning, Planning, and Subdivision Procedure Charts Mayor Swanson asked that it be made clear that the Council can also appeal, on the "Variance & Conditional Use Permit" chart, in the box labeled APPEAL. The Mayor also asked that the chart be made clearer with respect to fees. - 15 - o The City Attorney said that he also has some language changes and would like to discuss them with the City Manager before these documents are approved. Thus, the Mayor ordered the matter held on the agenda for the next meeting. CATV Survey The City Manager explained that this is an information item, and that the Councilmembers have received a copy of the survey which is intended to be sent out this week. It is hoped that the results of the survey would be available in about a month. Fire Season Status and Weed Abatement Process The City Manager reported that the Fire Department is beginning to make its on-site inspections for those properties that have not cut back weeds. The property owners are beginning to have their weeds removed and there has been a lot of activity on the part of the people that do this kind of work. The Fire Department's weed abatement process will continue until the middle of May. Councilman Pernell asked if the "NO SMOKING" signs had gone up yet, and the City Manager reported that they have been posted at all three entrances to the City. The Sheriff's Department has also been briefed on this matter regarding enforcement with respect to smoking inside vehicles. Councilman Pernell also recommended that a notice regarding this matter be published in the newsletter. The City Manager said that, also, the residents would be asked to inform their workers. Mayor Swanson also suggested that the gate guards be alerted to help with enforcement as people enter the City. Mayor Pro Tem Murdock asked if the trails had been posted, and the City Manager said that he thought they had been posted but he would verify that. Mayor Pro Tem Murdock remarked that the signs that are posted on the trails are put up by Caballeros, and recommended that an official notice be posted at the trail entrances. The Mayor also suggested that the Caballeros members be requested to help with enforcement on the trails. Councilman Pernell remarked that a few years ago there was a Sheriff's posse that patroled the trails and asked if that is still in force. Captain Gillard replied that it is still in force and normally it becomes more active in May and June. MEETING RECESSED TO CLOSED SESSION The meeting was recessed to a closed session at 10:50 p.m. for the purpose of discussing pending litigation. MEETING RECONVENED The meeting was reconvened at 11:00 p.m. ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 11:01 p.m., to Wednesday, April 13, 1988, at 7:00 a.m., 39 Crest Road West, Rolling Hills. APPROVED: Mayor - 16 - /. 4" City Clerk 0 J J